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[slang-users] recent discussion on mutt-dev ... you might be interested in

Hello,
hopefully this isn't just noise.

see attached thread.

	Thomas
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I run mutt on both my Debian Linux boxes and my MacOS X boxes. I've been 
keeping mutt in uxterm's of late, because I get a sufficient amount of 
mail containing fun characters (like curly quotes or umlauts) that it's 
worth it to me. There is one downside on Macs that I haven't quite 
figured out---perhaps the members of this mailing list can help?

The problem I face is with the thread display---when I sort by thread, I 
get the usual display of responses to a message underneath with the
symbols and everything. On my Linux boxes, mutt uses line-drawing 
characters within a uxterm, and everything is good and groovy. On my 
MacOS X boxes, however, if I try to use line-drawing characters within a 
uxterm, I get garbage instead, and am forced to set ascii_chars="yes" in 
order to make the thing useable.

Now, I know it's not a fonts issue or something like that, because I can 
:set charset="iso-8895-1" and presto, my threads appear correctly.

Aside from a 'set ascii_chars="yes"' on the MacOS boxes, all systems are 
using the same configuration (which I can post if it would help).

This happens with the (unpatched) version of Mutt in CVS (checked out 
just now, and tested), as well as 1.5.6i with several patches.

Any ideas? Any help is much appreciated.

~Kyle
-- 
The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is
comprehensible.
-- Albert Einstein

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On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 11:19:13PM -0500, Kyle Wheeler wrote:
> symbols and everything. On my Linux boxes, mutt uses line-drawing 
> characters within a uxterm, and everything is good and groovy. On my 
> MacOS X boxes, however, if I try to use line-drawing characters within a 
> uxterm, I get garbage instead, and am forced to set ascii_chars="yes" in 

The specifics are very different, but I had trouble displaying line-drawing
characters using the terminal emulator TeraTerm on a new install of WindowsXP
to connect to the NetBSD box running Mutt.  I solved the problem by installing
the font "LETGOTHL.TTF" on the WindowsXP machine.

>From this experience, I might suggest checking that your terminal definitions
for "uxterm" are exactly the same on both the Linux box and the MacOS box.
The locales on the respective machines, and the fonts available for those
locales probably comes into play.

> Aside from a 'set ascii_chars="yes"' on the MacOS boxes, all systems are 
> using the same configuration (which I can post if it would help).

I'd be interested in knowing which curses library (slang, ncurses, ncursesw
or native curses) and version you used to build the respective Mutt binaries.

(It has recently been brought to my attention that the differences I have
with nvi, built with ncursesw, and Mutt, built with slang, in displaying
wide characters possibly is due to the different curses libraries used to
build them.)

> Any ideas? Any help is much appreciated.

That's a ditto.

-- 
henry nelson
 | day job: | http://yuba.kcn.ne.jp/biorec/nehan/henken.html

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On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 02:50:31PM +0900, Henry Nelson quoth:
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 11:19:13PM -0500, Kyle Wheeler wrote:
> > symbols and everything. On my Linux boxes, mutt uses line-drawing 
> > characters within a uxterm, and everything is good and groovy. On my 
> > MacOS X boxes, however, if I try to use line-drawing characters within a 
> > uxterm, I get garbage instead, and am forced to set ascii_chars="yes" in 
> 
> The specifics are very different, but I had trouble displaying line-drawing
> characters using the terminal emulator TeraTerm on a new install of WindowsXP
> to connect to the NetBSD box running Mutt.  I solved the problem by installing
> the font "LETGOTHL.TTF" on the WindowsXP machine.
> 
> From this experience, I might suggest checking that your terminal definitions
> for "uxterm" are exactly the same on both the Linux box and the MacOS box.
> The locales on the respective machines, and the fonts available for those
> locales probably comes into play.

Interesting... where would those terminal definitions be? I know both of 
them have an en_US.UTF-8 locale definition.

> > Aside from a 'set ascii_chars="yes"' on the MacOS boxes, all systems 
> > are using the same configuration (which I can post if it would 
> > help).
> 
> I'd be interested in knowing which curses library (slang, ncurses, ncursesw
> or native curses) and version you used to build the respective Mutt binaries.

The one on OSX is compiled against ncurses 5.3-20031018 (from 
fink---which doesn't seem to have a version of ncursesw), and libiconv 
1.9.2-11. The one on Debian is compiled against ncursesw5 5.4-4.

> (It has recently been brought to my attention that the differences I have
> with nvi, built with ncursesw, and Mutt, built with slang, in displaying
> wide characters possibly is due to the different curses libraries used to
> build them.)

Seems understandable. Perhaps it's an ncursesw thing? (that w seems 
quite important all of a sudden)

~Kyle
-- 
A great many people think they are thinking when they are acutally
rearranging their prejudices.
-- William James

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On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 01:27:58AM -0500, Kyle Wheeler wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 02:50:31PM +0900, Henry Nelson quoth:
> > From this experience, I might suggest checking that your terminal definitions
> > for "uxterm" are exactly the same on both the Linux box and the MacOS box.
[...]
> 
> Interesting... where would those terminal definitions be? I know both of 

I think the most recent ncurses package does not overwrite the system
files, and puts the terminfo stuff into "/usr/local/share/terminfo".
All I can say is that that is where it (ncurses-5.4) installed the terminal
descriptions on my system.

> The one on OSX is compiled against ncurses 5.3-20031018 (from 
> fink---which doesn't seem to have a version of ncursesw), and libiconv 
> 1.9.2-11. The one on Debian is compiled against ncursesw5 5.4-4.

This is a HUGE hint for debugging on my system.  Thanks a million.

If you have the time and interest, you might try installing the latest
libncursesw on your OSX box, and then building Mutt against it.  It's
looking more and more to me like what glyphs you can get an application
to draw has a lot to do with the curses library it's linked to.

> Seems understandable. Perhaps it's an ncursesw thing? (that w seems 
> quite important all of a sudden)

_w_ide.  Adds multibyte (both one-byte and two-byte) character support.

-- 
henry n.

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--- Begin Message --- 
Hi,

* Henry Nelson [04-10-11 16:16:50 +0900] wrote:

> It's looking more and more to me like what glyphs you can get an
> application to draw has a lot to do with the curses library it's
> linked to.

On my systems where ncursesw cannot be built (easily), I still use mutt
with regular ncurses and utf-8. There are a few problems but in the
majority of cases it's okay ("okay" also includes that I have to hit
CTRL+L to redraw the screen every once a while).

  bye, Rocco
-- 
α² + β² = γ² ⇔ γ = ⎷(α² + β²)
:wq!

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--- Begin Message --- 
On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 04:16:50PM +0900, Henry Nelson quoth:
> > The one on OSX is compiled against ncurses 5.3-20031018 (from 
> > fink---which doesn't seem to have a version of ncursesw), and 
> > libiconv 1.9.2-11. The one on Debian is compiled against ncursesw5 
> > 5.4-4.
> 
> This is a HUGE hint for debugging on my system.  Thanks a million.
> 
> If you have the time and interest, you might try installing the latest
> libncursesw on your OSX box, and then building Mutt against it.  It's
> looking more and more to me like what glyphs you can get an application
> to draw has a lot to do with the curses library it's linked to.
> 
> > Seems understandable. Perhaps it's an ncursesw thing? (that w seems 
> > quite important all of a sudden)
> 
> _w_ide.  Adds multibyte (both one-byte and two-byte) character support.

AHA! Compiled and installed ncursesw without trouble (fink guys: you 
fell down on the job here, it compiles, installs, and works just fine), 
recompiled mutt, and presto: mutt displays threads beautifully.

Thanks for the help,
~Kyle
-- 
And thou shalt smite the house of Ahab thy master, that I may avenge the
blood of my servants the prophets, and the blood of all the servants of
the LORD, at the hand of Jezebel. For the whole house of Ahab shall
perish.
-- Bible, II Kings (9:7-8)

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On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 12:44:56PM -0500, Kyle Wheeler wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 04:16:50PM +0900, Henry Nelson quoth:
> > If you have the time and interest, you might try installing the latest
> > libncursesw on your OSX box, and then building Mutt against it.  It's
> > looking more and more to me like what glyphs you can get an application
> > to draw has a lot to do with the curses library it's linked to.
[...]
> AHA! Compiled and installed ncursesw without trouble (fink guys: you 
> fell down on the job here, it compiles, installs, and works just fine), 
> recompiled mutt, and presto: mutt displays threads beautifully.

Thanks for reporting back.  I suspect this result has important
implications for utf-8 users.  (Spells the end of slang?)

-- 
henry nelson
 | day job: | http://yuba.kcn.ne.jp/biorec/nehan/henken.html

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